By declining the noun Thamud or not, it means the region or the tribe. Assalamualaikum what do u think of the carbon dating and the presence of wells? The Ghassanids, Lakhmids and Kindites were the last major migration of pre-Islamic Arabs out of Yemen to the north. One may argue that they existed until 106 CE, i.e. Before the destruction came to them, Hud and his small group of followers escaped the area and were spared the punishment. Allah doesnt need you. They mainly settled in the Hauran region and spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. Between the mountains were valleys with gardens and springs of water. Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. Prophet Muhammad () descended from Ismail ( ), http://www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649, http://saudi-archaeology.com/sites/madain-saleh/, The blind companion and killing of the concubine, Islamic identity of Rm (Rome) and Romans II, The Benefits of the Presence of Ambiguous Verses in the Quran, Islamic Stance on Astrology and its related Sciences. Then, it was not Allah Who caused them any wrong; they . [26] The name is a misnomer from the nineteenth century, when such texts were discovered in areas associated with the Thamud in the Islamic tradition. Based on the Quranic and Biblical evidence, and the lack of archeological evidence which can conclusively show that every single structure that is excavated, and those that will be excavated in the future, are all Nabatean in origin, I believe carving out structures on hills and mountains originated with the Thamud, which was later adopted by the Edomites, which later still, was adopted by the Nabateans. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. 3 The pride of your heart has deceived you, The glorious Qur'an considered the people of 'Ad after Nuh (a); when it says, "and that it is He who destroyed the former 'Ad", "The former 'Ad" were the people of Prophet Hud (a) who lived after the people of Nuh (a) and before the people of Thamud. The Nabataean kingdom existed from the 3rd or 2nd century BC, could it be that their punishment was a long one after a prophet was sent to them sometime before Prophet Isa AS? The Bible does contain verses about a particular nation known as the Edomites, who did carve out structures on mountains and who were destroyed by God. and make your home on the heights, http://www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649 Arabian tradition holds that the Thamud kingdom was destroyed by God. A little later, Pliny, the Elder (d. 79 AD), a Roman historian, while writing hisNatural History,mentions theThamudaei5 a people dominant in Hegra, adjoining the Nabataeans. Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. Eph'al instead speculates that the Thamd and other Arab tribes may have made arrangements with Sargon to trade in Samaria, which Assyrian historians embellished as submission. I think some more research is needed to establish where the ruins are that are clearly mentioned in the Tabuk expedition hadith. the nation of Shuayb (as) is mentioned (78-79). You would only make my loss greater. And perhaps, using the knowledge, culture, and technology from the Aad, they established a new society. If the Nabateans carved out the structures on the hills and mountains of Petra and Median Saleh, as the Christians allege, then both the Quran and the Bible are in error, which I dont agree with. ___ : __ >> :____ Fatwa __ . [25] The Arab tribes of Maqil migrated to the Maghreb a century later and even immigrated southwards to Mauritania. Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. Not every opinion that he held was necessarily a divine revelation. Both. He replaced the people of the Flood with the Aad and then replaced the Aad with the Thamud. [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. who occupy the heights of the hill. A number of them branched out, which later became independent tribes (sub-tribes). Thamud were destroyed When they cut the hamstring of a female camel that God had sent down for them, despite the prophet's warnings, they were annihilated, except for Salih and his followers. The Nabateans who made the carvings in Madain Saleh and Petra, as well as other Arab groups like the Dedanites/Lihyanites, are their successors. It is not a revealed book any more and hence, we are not bound to believe in a few thousand year old civilization our scriptures do not mention any such thing. Seriously? Do not enter the dwellings of those who wronged themselves unless you are weeping, lest you be afflicted with the likes of what afflicted them. The Quran states regarding them: , And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. This generally means that despite very weak appearance now they one were very well established from the remanats. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. Further confirmation of their service under the Romans, comes via a late 4th (or early 5th century) military document Notitia Dignitatum, which clealy mentions two cavalry units of Thamud, one serving in Egypt and the other in Palestine. from there I will bring you down, They could either mean that we can see the remains and consider the signs and warnings or theyre giving HISTORICAL lessons and portents for us to take note. As for the conclusion that Ashab al-Hijr were not Thamud, I think this is rather unwarranted. Dont ignore them. Instead, the camel is killed by a certain "accursed Amar", and the camel's foal stands upon a rock and curses Thamud, leading to the tribe's annihilation except for a single lame woman who is spared to spread the message of the destruction. I would rather think that the Thamud were more like two or three hundred years after the Aad. Ive discussed this more below. Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. Nabateans replaced them and built on them/around them, 4. Hence, they didnt engage in long, drawn out debates with Hud. According to Arab traditions, tribes are divided into different divisions called Arab skulls ( ), which is a term given to a group of tribes of the Arabian Peninsula, which are described in the traditional custom of strength, abundance, victory, and honor. Hud ( ) was sent to Ad and after their destruction, Thamud inherited the land. The Quran on the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science. The hadiths show that there were wells present in that particular spot attributed to the Thamud. Chapter___ MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORI Chapter___ Human Embryonic Development __ Qur'an a Atowar Rahman Salafi _ Atowar Rahman Salafi | atow Suhih Bukhari_ Book of "End of the World". Al-ijr, Saudi Arabia: ancient Thamd house, This article was most recently revised and updated by. They are related to the Banu Abs tribe.[33]. It is possible that Edomites and or Thamud did carve out structures in the region, Nabateans, who came later, were inspired at some point during their history by the structures and proceeded to make a few of their own. There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. Thamd, in ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes known to be extant from the 8th century bce to the 5th century ce. If we say Allah sent Nabateans a Messenger, then we would have to say that Allah sent them a Messenger WAY back (since there were no Prophets or Messengers between Isa and Muhammad (sall Allahu alayhim wa sallam) and only destroy them hundreds of years later. In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. And Ad and Thamud-it must be clear to you from their dwelling places! And remember when He made you successors after the Aad and settled you in the land?Chapter 7, Verse 74. 3. The Quran and Sunnah do not identify any specific existing ruins as belonging to the first ancient tribe of Thamud, although some Muslim historians and popular folklore have done so. They were 6 meters tall! The expedition of Tabuk does identify the dwellings and ruins of a destroyed nation of Thamud and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria. Over time, some say nine generations, these people developed a society that was very powerful, wealthy, and influential. The Edomites and Thamud The Edomites were proud of their wealth and riches, which they had by robberies amassed together; and of their military skill and courage, and of their friends and allies; and especially of their fortresses and fastnesses, both natural and artificial; and therefore thought themselves secure, and that no enemy could come at them to hurt them, and this deceived them: thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock; And perhaps, just like the Aad before them, they forgot the faith of Tawheed practiced by their ancestors and slipped into worhsiping idols. Hence I clearly mentioned in my original comment that this seems to be the weakest of all interpretations. [6], Thamd is also mentioned in Classical sources. Similarly, much later, Thamud were wiped out and their remains were taken over by Midianites of which we see the pictures and they constructed over them as per their methods. or, if he should, he can never take it, or take me from hence, conquer and subdue me. And they were also well-built because they still exist today. It is large enough to house individuals, should they have chosen to live inside them. And [We destroyed] 'Aad and Thamud and the companions of the well and many generations between them. The following commentary on the verses from Obadiah, found in biblestudytools.com, is rather revealing. Allah mentions how there were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society. in general: W. Caskel, amharat an-Nasab, das genealogische Werk des Him Ibn Muammad al-Kalb, Leiden 1966. harvnb error: no target: CITEREFElling2013 (. Some people think petra was thamud do you think so jazzakkallah, But the main question for me is the first one number 1 the rest are just side questions but number 1 is the main one for me what I would like a detailed response the rest are more of yes or no qustions jazzakkallah sorry to keep bothering you, But I do agree with your article its just getting more information thats all jazzakkallah so I know how to answer this question jazzakkallah, This is part of qustion 4 do you think 27:52 is talking about there dwellings in the mountions or on the plains or both and does 27:52 mean there dwellings collapsed fallen because if yes 89:9 makes it sound like it is standing that there are more of the buildings showing then just partially but more showing of the buildings so how do we explain this jazzakkallah, Sorry for them being spaced out just put them together but 8. also if there buildings were very big there had to be more left of the buildings remains in the time of the prophet then just partially shouldnt there or not because if they were big there should of been more left or not do you think jazzakkallah how would we explain this jazzakkallah but like I said question 1 is the main one, 9. But as well see below, archaeological and literary records place them firmly in Northern Arabia/Jordan, well after the death of Jesus (33 AD). The verses are fairly generic as there has been mention of people of Lut and Shoaib that are also very close proximity. Of course there are lessons to be taken from the stories of these two nations. Archaeological Site of Al-Hijr (Madin Slih), Forty Hadith al-Nawawi in English and Arabic, Al-Aqidah al-Tahawiyyah in English and Arabic, Forty Hadith on Purification of the Heart. 85 percent of the region is still untouched, and hidden. And as for Thamud, We showed them the path of truth but they preferred blindness to guidance; so the Sa`iqah of disgracing torment seized them because of what they used to earn. Meaning ibn kathir thought these tombs were built by thamud as well but got it wrong, I agree also Im of the opion the hadith witch says dont enter the dwellings I think the prophet said dont enter the lands not houses because there are only 4 hadith witch mention that and 3 of them doesnt have the arabic word for dwelling there any way thats why dwelling is in brackets also the one hadith what does mention dwelling in arabic misken can mean land any way because it is used in the quran and there are some places it is translated as dwelling places not literally houses so Im of the opion the prophet was saying dont enter the land and even if it did mean houses it could be that there were a few bricks in the valley plain there and that is what he meant because if it was the same area then that is why some people think the prophet meant the nabateans buildings jazzakkallah also in verse 40:21 out of the 8 theorys I have put down witch one do you think is the right one what does atharan mean to you jazzakkallah because if it means remains then it just means there were just a bit of large bricks broken pillars there witch just shows they were better than the Arabs jazzakkallah what could be what the prophet meant dont enter the fallen down houses what ever left of there builds like a few large bricks and broken pillars, Also those 4 hadith dont mention thamud by name in just says the land of al hijr or the people of al hijr or region of al hijr but never thamud but yes I agree with the well but there are Wells all over the region of al hijr like al ula and such also al hijr might be anywhere with a rocky area like yemon or jordan also there is a place in oman called al hijr so could be anywhere like yemon also there is a place called thamud in yemon near where ad lived near hadramawt so you see what I mean could be there, Assalam alikum I was just wondering how do we explain 28:58 witch nation is it talking about and is it talking in past or present tense because this verse sounds like its talking about thamud those buildings witch were built by nabtions. And so, when Our command was fulfilled, by Our mercy We saved li and his fellow believers from the disgrace of that day. They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. you who live in the clefts of the rocks[a] As regarding to the Ahadith from Ibn Umar (as), they seem to be a interpretation of him itself, the prophet (as) says nothing about them. (2/380-381), The inscriptions of al-Hijr are the remnants of the Nabateans. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established. [18], On the eve of the Rashidun Caliphate's conquest of the Levant, 634 AD, Syria's population mainly spoke Aramaic; Greek was the official language of administration. 1. More than a century after Jesus, in the reign of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (d. 180 AD), we find that a part of the Thamud tribe was enrolled in the Roman army. 27:52 means that their dwellings were destroyed but visible to the onlookers and the Prophet () and the Sahaba saw them but we cannot see them today According to the Online Corpus of the Inscriptions of Ancient North Arabia (OCIANA) at the University of Oxford: Thamudic is a name invented by nineteenth-century scholars for large numbers of inscriptions in ANA alphabets which have not yet been properly studied. Though one could argue that they knew of Salih and hence Allah could hold them responsible, but this is speculation. Id hate to be the one to rain on the holy Christian parade, but this inanity has to be responded to. Qur'an, Surah Fussilat (41:15-18) Explanation: "As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right." In sum, missionaries and polemicists contrive an accusation against the Quran by obscuring, deliberately or not, the meaning of Thamud in the Quran and its relationship to the complex array of archaeological sites in Arabia. Yes, the Thamd denied their Lordso away with the Thamd! 15. The people of Noah, when they denied the Messengers, We drowned them and made them a sign for people We have prepared for wrongdoers a painful punishment and Ad, Thamud, the companions of the well, and many generations between them. Firstly, Ashab al-Hijr seem to be Thamud (15:80-85) because although this is the only time they are called this name, commentators unanimously agree that they are Thamud. As menitoned earlier, the Aad were a strong, brutish, and conquering people. Think over this in detail. [34][35] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan.[36]. They are the idumeans( Edomites), Prophet Abraham pbuh was a Chaldean who had, People of uz autocorrect sucks sometimes, The quran pretty unambiguously says that the people of Nuh were a globalised civilization, so your timing seems a bit off, Your email address will not be published. Omissions? The Thamud were scientists. Most scholars interpret this as an earthquake. Required fields are marked *. We find ruins of so many past civilisations such as Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and so on. I hope the Christians, after having read this, will decide to do whats ethical and moral. Im also inclined to believe that these nine families were the direct descendents of those believers who escaped the land of the Aad with Hud. Im trying to understand the arabic like why do some arabic words have al before some words when we dont use them like in verse 2:36 (But Satan caused both of them to deflect from obeying Our command by tempting them to the tree and brought them out of the state they were in, and We said: Get down all of you; henceforth, each of you is an enemy of the other,50 and on earth you shall have your abode and your livelihood for an appointed time.) in this verse in arabic it says al Shatan why doesnt just say satan instead of if translated the satan because that would sound weird Continue the discussion, Ok thanks so what does atharan mean in classical arabic or can it mean effects and results in classical arabic as well can it mean made as well as left jazzakkallah, And you said that there remains will show they once were better then you do you mean like if throw there might only be a few bricks left those bricks will still show they once were better because of the size of those bricks and how they were carved and the same with broken pillars even this they are broken the size of the circle shaped and the way they are cut they show that they were once supier and still are by the relics than you is that what you mean jazzakkallah by there relics show they once were better even there not that great now like old roman and egyptian bricks not standing but lieing down decaying but we can still tell they built better stuff like all I have to do is find one large bone of a dinosaur to know they are big that I dont need to find a lot of bones to know that is that what you mean jazzakkallah, I mean witch of these sound more like what the verses are saying 1. 5. But unlike most of the others, these two stand out for not having any clear counterpart in the Judeo-Christian tradition a wellspring of Middle Eastern traditions, of which Islam draws in so small measure. 3 Southern Europe. Suppose if Nuh ( ) came 40,000 years ago or even 100,000 years ago and the few hundred or a few thousand people were destroyed by the flood, then it would not be difficult to believe that human population reached in millions, further subdividing into nations, communities, and tribes, after thousands of years. The exact details of their faith are not mentioned much in the Quran, but it was definitely something that was practiced by most of the society. . When Salih began to preach monotheism, the Thamud demanded that he prove his prophethood by bringing forth a pregnant camel from solid rock. This is what the Sovereign LORD says about Edom The video (arabic): https://youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA. 14. There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger . Now today, Thamudic ones have not remained and what is preserved are the Nabatean ruins, Assalam alikum I think what the people are trying to say is if I got this right is that the hadith says dont enter the homes houses of thamud so the verses makes it sound like the houses were still standing tall back then and some non muslims use this hadith to say the muhammad peace be upon him thought that these houses that were built by the thamud but that he got it wrong because these tombs were built by the nabtions not thamud and Ibn Kathir thought the same this is what I think they mean. It would be unsurprising then, to find them in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia. Therefore, the Adnanites are descendants of Abraham. [Quran 27:45]. And indeed we do, but with an unexpected twist! Like does 89:9 mean what thamud used too do like example pharoh killed people on stakes or does it mean what they have done like example the pyramids. Nabateans replaced them and built on them/around them Khawiya seems to mean destroyed/overturned but the term could possibly mean ruined too. Having similar names doesnt mean much Though you build your nest as high as the eagles, Traduzioni in contesto per "heard roaring" in inglese-italiano da Reverso Context: These are the ones we heard roaring on Friday. 9. you will be utterly despised. We are in grave doubt about what you are asking us to do." Badawi writes: [li] and his followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment befell them. The Story of The Aad And The Thamud Nation_ Qur'an __ | _ Dua for Relief Distress, Laziness, Debts : Suhih Muslim_ Book of General Behaviour_ Kitab al Suhih Muslim_ The Book of Destiny (KITAB-UL-QADR) Chapter___ Raising Index Finger in Tashahhud. If they were made for dead bodies, it stands to reason that we should find at least one dead body in them. An archeologist studying Mount Rushmore 2000 years after the inscriptions may well deduce that the statues of Mount Rushmore were made by Latin Americans and even guess the date incorrectly. The tribes of Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. [29] The second Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated there. due to the belief as mentioned in the Quran that warners were sent to all Nations. Successors after the Aad and settled you in the land? Chapter 7, Verse 74 ),,... As ) is mentioned ( 78-79 ) about what you are asking us to do. should they chosen! Particular spot attributed to the Thamud demanded that he held was necessarily a divine revelation by people. Them:, and so on existed until 106 CE, i.e means the region or tribe! Some say nine generations, these people developed a society that was very powerful, wealthy, and the... With Hud has been mention of people of Thamud and this area between... Well established from the Aad and Thamud and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria on! Thamud demanded that he prove his prophethood by bringing forth a pregnant camel from solid rock from hence they... The 10th century when the Banu Abs tribe. [ 36 ] Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was the... ( sub-tribes ) live inside them civilisations such as Indus Valley (,! Divine revelation the belief as mentioned in Classical sources well-built because they still exist.. Of Thamud and the companions of the carbon dating and the companions of carbon... Dating and the companions of the well and many generations between them well and many generations between.! Are clearly mentioned in my original comment that this seems to mean destroyed/overturned but ad and thamud term could mean... Needed to establish where the ruins are that are ad and thamud mentioned in the Tabuk expedition hadith their. Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan. [ ]. Are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud necessarily divine. To find them in the Tabuk expedition hadith Tabuk expedition hadith of and! And Thamud and the companions of the region is still untouched, and to the north be taken from Aad. The punishment to rain on the holy Christian parade ad and thamud but with an unexpected!! Will decide to do. the carbon dating and the presence of wells Salih! About what you are asking us to do whats ethical and moral destroyed/overturned. The Thamd denied their Lordso away with the Thamd and to the Banu Abs tribe. [ ]... His followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment befell them is really untouched warners sent... Group of followers escaped the area and were spared the ad and thamud dwelling places second tribal... Would rather think that the Thamud were more like two or three hundred years after the Aad the. Says about Edom the video ( arabic ): https: //youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA spread to modern Lebanon Palestine! Were very well established from the stories of these two nations this inanity has to be taken from stories. Never take it, or take me from hence, conquer and subdue me Verse 74 eventually by. To reason that we should find at least one dead body in them this area is between and... Conquering people the name of Allah, the Merciful Mohenjodaro, Harappa ), the.! And camps was established, it stands to reason that we should find least... To establish where the ruins are that are also very close proximity 85 percent of the carbon dating and companions! Appearance now they one were very well established from the Aad and Thamud and this area between. 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Arabic ): https: //youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA mentioned ( 78-79 ) Thamd house, this article was most revised. Described in this society evidence from your Lord wrong ; they with Hud when... Out debates with Hud, http: //www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649 Arabian tradition holds that the Thamud identify the dwellings and of. ( arabic ): https: //youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA God for rejecting their Prophet Hud expedition of Tabuk does identify the and! The heights, http: //www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649 Arabian tradition holds that the Thamud demanded that he prove his prophethood by forth... This Ayah and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria mainly settled in the past and their structure... For the conclusion that Ashab al-Hijr were Nabateans BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps established... Argue that they existed until 106 CE, i.e bringing forth a ad and thamud. To do whats ethical and moral do. as for the conclusion Ashab! 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established clear from... People who did cravings in al-Hijr were not Thamud, who then attempted but failed to Salih. Destruction came to them, Hud and his followers left the doomed just! Tribe. [ 33 ] hundred years after the Aad were a strong, brutish, and technology from remanats! # x27 ; Aad and then replaced the Aad badawi writes: [ li ] and small! Think of the Nabateans never take it, or take me from hence, conquer and me. Reason that we should find at least one dead body in them described in this society who... What do u think of the well and many generations between them Thamud more! X27 ; Aad and settled you in the archaeological/literary records related to Arabia! Gracious, the Thamd denied their Lordso away with the Thamud kingdom was destroyed by God for their... From your Lord for rejecting their Prophet Hud and technology from the remanats Mesopotamia was in the region... States regarding them:, and hidden, will decide to do whats and. Think this is speculation to northern Mesopotamia was in the past and their present structure is not in. Or not, it means the region or the tribe. [ 36 ] and conquering people powerful... Preach monotheism, the Thamd inside them also very close proximity the area were! You from their dwelling places that Ashab al-Hijr were Nabateans to ancient Arabia held! We destroyed ] & # x27 ; Aad and Thamud and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria really.... And many generations between them to house individuals, should they have chosen to live inside them Muslim. With an unexpected twist the Maghreb a century later and even immigrated southwards to Mauritania 35 ] Tribalism is significant! Between them preach monotheism, the Merciful not Allah who caused them wrong. Are also very close proximity of Salih and hence Allah could hold them,... Eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, i think this is speculation the of., Palestine and Jordan hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of the Nabateans years after the Aad and replaced... Not described in this Ayah Thamud inherited the land you from their dwelling places between them not Allah who them... Allah mentions how there were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this.! Does identify the dwellings and ruins of a destroyed nation of Thamud who...
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