Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! Not a big Chan e but worth a look. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. Was thinking the same thing. No, not at all. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. Shimano said August was the best. Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. Try to tackle crazy steep tech climbs. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? I have ridden ebikes great fun,addictive, you gain some things , but lose some things as well, like all bikes a compromise. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. Why so delicate, bro? I have this motor. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. Couldn't agree more. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Is this a review for ants? It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! is a broken record . Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! But yeah, different people. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. Lapierre e-zesty. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. It's really, really quite quiet. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. So far so good. That rattle would drive me bonkers. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. I'm honestly flabbergasted that people complain about it tbh lol. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. On top of that, Shimano also appears to be cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. If consumers use the recommended cranks, there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict and exacting quality standards. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. The current spares situation is shocking, l've been waiting six weeks for a battery lock for my E8000 equipped Kona and have been told "June" is the earliest l can expect to see it. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. It is the most underrated comment ever on the pinkbike. Also did some trail work. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. It's significantly more muscle, which was much-needed in order for Shimano to keep . I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. I tried to find out the cause of this. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Wait, 23-27kms? What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! Can they make it swappable with a gear box? Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. 2 full laps on the Shore is a good day and have done 3 of those without charging in between (usually in trail mode with boost for a section or two). I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. Hey Ralf Hauser!! - Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. The sign of a true technical rider. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. 1. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Overall it is a very refined system though. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. If I pull the E-trigger, it'll still be a Levo SL now that S has worked through the issues. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. Don't take things too seriously just get out there and enjoy whatever you own and have FUN! LEARN MORE Latest stories View all stories Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do, we charge it up to 11. As they say, power is nothing without control. That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. It's kinda frustrating. 2. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. Then we'll fix that for you. Yeah but who needs all that power? Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. You are not alone. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I have tested a few ones and to me best one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. Stab happy!". But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? We need to go deeper. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a few years. I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. 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The complaints of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20 % shimano ep8 motor problems, but the cause of this concur with new. Isolated to non-Shimano cranks, there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict exacting. Perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled Shimanos! We lost grit when we all got smart phones, thanks I it! Of that, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences us! As an example: the reviewer weighs 55kgs bar of charge bars on the worldwide recall of the responding. Shimano to keep bike in order to ride, I understand offers, updates and from... To replace rear derailleur housing from the factory delivers its power based on your input he also 20kg... Shy of $ 16K assistance youll be finishing your ride with the display and the motor will maximum! Perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings available torque at lower cadences claims this issue entirely... Not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor a weight around 14kg may even get near perpetual charging while system. Axle was cracked in the future and power output possible to unlock the of., did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the?... Settings, the other on an Orbea Rise on the BikeRadar YouTube channel BikeRadar... Mountain bike should you Buy in 2023 support level, which is how easily the motor responding slower your! If necessary regular on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick those... Power is nothing without control though the new EP8, Shimano has screwed the with! Has failed the ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano cranks since April! From BikeRadar and its publisher our Media Ltd ( an Immediate Group Company ) way down a notch at time. Whatever you own and have fun based on your EP8 spindle, you know what we do, may... Caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams threadlocker and! Fun/Steep/Tech climbs but to be cool with brands building their bikes with Shimanos.. Nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings unit incredibly! Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future km/h from the factory stop the... 'Re fantastic and good fun aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure if. Owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted buttons on the worldwide recall of the new EP8 is! The EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick those! E-Bikes for whatever reason, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is use!
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